Who Questions

[ffutures]

Have we ever seen the two Victorian adventurers before? I really don't remember them but I missed a lot of 6th-7th doctor episodes. If not, the maid was called Jenny - could she be the Doctor's daughter after a regeneration?

I think we've answered my question a week or two ago about Rory's swordsmanship - now I really want to write that Highlander crossover, since Jenny and her friend, The Centurion, and Duncan MacLeod must have all been active in Victorian London around the same time.

Later - I'm an idiot, the Centurion was only active in London in the timeline that was destroyed, which can't be the same one the two ladies come from.

later still - Except that the fighters also came from that timeline. Okay, wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff I assume, they can coexist.

Stonkingly good episode anyway - now I want to see what happens to Hitler next time around...

Comments

[gonzo21.livejournal.com]

I'm assuming we're going to see the episode with the Silurian and the Maid and the Victorian tunnels in the second half of the season.

Likewise the girl from the forest planet who just wanted to see the doctor one last time.

I also get the feeling that something jolly clever is going to happen, and that the reason why we don't know why the Headless monks and these humans want to defeat the doctor so much, is because he hasn't done what he's going to do to them in revenge for what they've done yet. So there is going to be a grand sort of paradox, they'll only have taken the child, because of something hte Doctor is yet to do, because they took the child... if that makes sense.

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

I suspect that the Silurian thing is just something in the Doctor's back story we aren't going to see.

The forest planet thing is obviously a clue, it was pretty clear that the Doctor didn't remember her at all so they're going to meet in the future. And with a name like Lorna Bucket is there any way she isn't tied in to the River / Pond thing?

Agree on the paradox thing, this is definitely going back to the 20th century or earlier. But without Amy and Rory???

[gonzo21.livejournal.com]

I get the feeling that Amy and Rorys days are very much numbered now. Because what do we know about the young life of Melody/River? She's in a spacesuit life support unit, she's raised by the Silence in a creepy abandoned house, until she escapes and breaks free.

Something obviously goes very wrong with her childhood, and I don't see where Amy and Rory are in it. So I'm now leaning towards Amy and Rory dying at some point, probably to protect/save Melody.

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

Or she's a fixed point in time and nobody can intervene. Didn't we see someone - her? - regenerate in an alley in the second episode of this series. Maybe they simply never find her.

[gonzo21.livejournal.com]

Which also makes sense of the bit in Silence of the Library where River takes pains to tell the Doctor that this is a death he cannot regenerate from.

[booster17.livejournal.com]

To second the probablepossible death of Rory idea, that was pretty much the first time River's ever met Rory at the beginning of that episode.

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

Yes and no - she and plastic Rory met towards the end of the last season, and she was lurking outside the wedding reception after the reboot.

[booster17.livejournal.com]

I meant to say I think that's the first time she meets him in her personal timeline.

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

Maybe - it does seem to trend that way.

[gonzo21.livejournal.com]

And I think we're supposed to think that the 'good man' River kills is the Doctor, and thus we're supposed to think that's her in the Spacesuit. Which seems... too obvious.

[pbristow.livejournal.com]

You think her real name is Waterlily Bouquet? =:o}
(See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyacinth_Bucket)

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

Not necessarily, but there's definitely a water / river / pond connection.

[keristor.livejournal.com]

Strictly it isn't a paradox, just a closed time loop and they are common. Anyway, any paradox can be paraDoctored...

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

Who said that originally? Leiber?

[keristor.livejournal.com]

Originally, I don't know, I was getting it from Heinlein ("The Number of the Beast") but that's a late work and so he may well have been quoting an earlier work. (My internal capitalisation of 'Doctored', though -- especially as we have had at least one 'para' Doctor recently, making a pair-o'-Docs.)

[michael cule (from livejournal.com)]

Heinlein's first use of the line is in BY HIS BOOTSTRAPS which is early, classic Heinlein. I think it originates with him.

[keristor.livejournal.com]

Ah, I unremembered whether it had been used back then (and didn't have source around to check), he evidently quoted himself in tNotB.

[karohemd.livejournal.com]

Surely, letting anything happen to Hitler would completely change the modern timeline?

[gonzo21.livejournal.com]

Unless somebody else is trying to do something to Hitler, and the Doctor finds himself in the odd position of trying to save Hitler?

[karohemd.livejournal.com]

That'll work.

[murphys-lawyer.livejournal.com]

I recall a throwaway line from some time-travel story or other on the lines of: "Everyone tries to kill Hitler the first time out..."

[karohemd.livejournal.com]

there's also this.

[pauldormer.livejournal.com]

I was wondering that about the Victorians. Don't recall them. Did love the line about how did you find Jack the Ripper: "Delicious!"

And her having a driver called Parker, whose only line was "Yes, my lady."!

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

It really does call out for fanfic. I really do have other things to do...

[pbristow.livejournal.com]

Yes, but not *important* things... =>:o>

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

Would that were true. Especially since I've written four pages of the crossover this evening...

[pauldormer.livejournal.com]

Incidentally, checking the IMDb, I see Neve McIntosh who played Madame Vastra also played the Silurian Alaya last year. (And she also played Lady Fuchsia in the BBC version of Gormenghast back in 2000.)

[pbristow.livejournal.com]

"Have we ever seen the two Victorian adventurers before? "

Almost. We had Jago and Litefoot in "The Talons of Weng Chiang", who were mooted to get their own spin-off series on telly in the late 70s, but never did... and eventually, decades later, turned up as co-adventurers on audio instead, thanks to Big Finish. =:o}

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

They were human though - one of last night's adventuresses wasn't.

[pbristow.livejournal.com]

[SLAPS FOREHEAD] Sorry, I misread the question. I overlooked the fifth word. [BLUSH]