Looking for a military term

[ffutures]

I think that there's a military term for this - a civilian who signs on as a temporary officer equivalent in the armed forces, subject to orders etc.

The idea is that I want a rationale for civilian characters aboard a military vessel. Reserves doesn't quite work for my purposes. I could make them civilian employees, but I think I want them to be a little more in the chain of command.

Any suggestions?

Later - I think "Acting supernumerary" will do.

Comments

[gbsteve.livejournal.com]

Civil servants have brevet ranks equivalent to military ranks. There's a table here: http://www.dasa.mod.uk/modintranet/UKDS/UKDS2009/c2/table225.html

I'm a Grade 7 so OF-5, Captain, Group Captain or Colonel.

[aitkendrum.livejournal.com]

Hey I'm a Lt. OF2! (EO)

Now if someone would actually take my orders

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

Thanks - think I'm looking for a more American / universal term.

[major-clanger.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, when I was in uniform (I left the RAF in 2007) the situation was a bit more complex; in particular, the MOD itself seemed to use such equivalence but the individual services would work it differently. In the RAF, a Grade 7 was usually taken to equate to a Wing Commander; as a Squadron Leader, I once reported directly to one.

only half serious suggestion...

[alexmc.livejournal.com]

"Consultant"

Re: only half serious suggestion...

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

Not quite what I had in mind.

Warrant officer?

[3pitaka.livejournal.com]

In the United States, a Warrant Officer is a uniformed member of the armed services, within the chain of command, but who typically serves in a specialized technical field rather than in a command role, and is not commissioned through a military academy or officer training corps. A similar, though distinct role is that of Limited Duty Officer; an commissioned officer promoted through the ranks due to technical expertise, but with limits on promotion (originally, not beyond Lieutenant) and not filling a command role.

Re: Warrant officer?

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

Again, not really what I'm after - a civilian in a normally military role.

Re: Warrant officer?

[dsample.livejournal.com]

Civilians aboard US Navy ships, in a technical support role, such as installing, testing, or training on new equipment, are known as "tech-reps." They are given a simulated rank of warrant officer (putting them between the commissioned officers, and enlisted personnel in the chain of command) but they eat in the officer's mess, and sleep in officer's quarters.

[aitkendrum.livejournal.com]

The only term I heard of in my special duties time was "Secondee".

They would be uniformed in basic battle dress but worked with an equivalent rank as gbsteve detailed

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

Secondment implied a lack of choice. I think that the word I may be looking for is "supernumerary"

[major-clanger.livejournal.com]

In the Nelson-era Royal Navy that's what 'warrant officers' were - the surgeon, carpenter and so on.

There's no exact equivalent these days in the UK or (so far as I am aware) US forces. The nearest would be the way that the RAF used to have something called a RAFRO CC Commission (RAF Reserve of Officers, Civilian Component). As I understand it, this was a way of ensuring that certain members of the scientific Civil Service, such as Met Office staff, could be put into a military role if required.

Come to think of it, the nearest thing to that today is Sponsored Reserves, where a contractor such as BT has a team of staff all with special TA engagements, so they can be activated and sent as soldiers rather than civilian contractors to operational areas.

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

Not quite what I had in mind, but for my purposes I think that "Acting supernumerary" comes close enough.

Rationale?

[3pitaka.livejournal.com]

The question is why the military recruits in such a fashion instead of either performing the relevant education within its own ranks, or commissioning existing specialists (as, for instance, physicians have been commissioned).

One justification might be that military education in this world has become so specialized (concentrating on, say, mathematics and technicalia of weapons systems and engines) that there's no room left for specialists in "non-essential" fields like biology or geology or intercultural relations.

Re: Rationale?

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

In this case it's a way to get some good publicity by giving a couple of journalists with useful skills a free ride.

Re: Rationale?

[dsample.livejournal.com]

In that case, I think just "supernumerary" will do. The "acting" is redundant.

Re: Rationale?

[heliograph.livejournal.com]

For the Japanese during WWII, they wanted Taiwanese doctors in the Navy, but they didn't want them to have command authority: thus, Medical Advisory Officers.

"Acting supernumerary"

[jeffreyab.livejournal.com]

I googled a couple of examples but the first one refers to the Indian Civil Service:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=1YMIAAAAQAAJ&pg=RA1-PA48&lpg=RA1-PA48&dq=%22Acting+supernumerary%22&source=bl&ots=cZdQK_184N&sig=0QNF8TSy2jaYT-3JL9fHhYO0Quk&hl=en&ei=qxoYTNDhMMOmnAfZlN2hCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22Acting%20supernumerary%22&f=false

How about "Seconded Special Duties Officer 3rd to 1st Class?"

[heliograph.livejournal.com]

Advisory Officer. That's how they described a doctor drafted into the Japanese Navy during WWII. Socially (like at mess) they ranked above warrant officers but below officers, but they had zero military authority: they were below privates.

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

Sounds closer to what I want. Thanks!

[houses7177.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm a uniformed civilian, or DAC, pronounced 'dack'. It stands for a Department of Army Civilian. We're subject to the Military Code of Justice, hold equivalent ranks (I'm an O5, or a Army Colonel equivalent, and may be accorded the same rights depending on the scenario), have oaths, get military-style medals for our organizational chain, but we're not *in* the military. We only serve in uniform in active combat zones, however. I have military orders, military CAC ID but not military ID, can have ration cards on bases if I'm TDY.

Does this sound like what you're talking about? It's usually for technical experts that are not traditionally found in the official chain of command.

EDIT: to clarify a few points.

[heliograph.livejournal.com]

You've got equivalent rank but no authority, right? You're not in the chain of command and can't order lower ranked "real" officers or enlisted to do anything?

[houses7177.livejournal.com]

No, I can't order military people to do anything with official orders that hold water in a legal sense. I can order people in our chain of command, however, people like us. It seemed like Marcus was asking about legitimate presence on a ship, or whatnot, not that the person was actually ordering military personnel to execute.

Actually, now that I think about it, some DACs *can* have military people detailed to us, and they do answer to us as far as official orders go. A colleague has two captains that answer to him as if he was their commanding officer, and is listed so on their posting documentation. He rates them, that sort of thing, but it's extremely rare. In his case, it's because he does most of his work in forward operating scenarios, and I do not.

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

Thanks - I've now got so many choices I should be able to come up with something that works!

Coming to this a bit late...

[uk-lemming.livejournal.com]

The RFA (Royal Fleet Auxiliary) have a similar arrangement, being Merchant Navy officers employed by the Ministry of Defence, operating under normal Rules/Laws in normal operations and under the Naval Discipline Act when engaged in "Warlike Operations"

But the Closest scenario I can think of is detailed in this article