Thanks for what???

[ffutures]

Just watched the Fantastic Four movie and wondered about something. Two or three times in this film the Four are shown being thanked for saving the day, saving lives, etc. But if you look at what actually happened, the main reason why those lives are in danger is that the FF were there.

For example... the big crash on the bridge. Caused by the Fantastic Four. One guy would have committed suicide if they hadn't been there - instead there was a huge pile-up, property damage probably in the tens of millions, quite possibly several deaths and injuries, and a seriously damaged bridge that would have to be closed for months.

Pretty much the same thing happens at the climax - most of the damage is done by the four, not Dr. Doom. It isn't Doom that chooses to puncture a swimming pool, or throw a car at a bus. It isn't Doom that risks setting fire to the atmosphere.

I could go on, but it's all like that. There seems no reason for their sudden popularity, nor for the sudden unpopularity of Victor.

It wouldn't have been hard to write a script that treated the characters with dignity but still gave rational reasons for them to be regarded as heroes, but it feels like the screenwriters simply didn't bother.

Not recommended.

Comments

[orangemike.livejournal.com]

They are The Heroes. Whatever they do, is heroic.

Doom is The Villain. Whatever he does, is villainous.

Ironically, Marvel Comics was once famed for not being as mindlessly simplistic about this kind of thing as the Distinguished Competition. But of course, those comics were written by mere comic book people, not professional screenwriters.

[jgracio.livejournal.com]

And besides they already have the X-Men and Spiderman for the whole popular/unpopular heroes bit.

The FF are popular because, huh, they are? And who would like a guy named Victor Von Doom.

And besides, it doesn't matter how much damage you're causing, since you're trying to help in the first place! It's all about the intentions darn it! :)

[saranjeuhal.livejournal.com]

Yes, well that's not really how Hollywood writes scripts :D

I agree totally. The problem is that peopel are viewing the events through "Hero Goggles" which are much like "Soccer Hero Goggles", where you focus only on the opposing side and what they're doing (especially how crap they're doing and the bad things they do).

Most people live their lives in polarity - if you're not one of us, then you're one of them. It's a simplistic viewpoint that obscures the nuances of the world, but it allows people to function to a certain degree.

And personally, hearing Horatio Hornblower speak in Murican was horrible, although the little touches like Ben's Big N Tall clothes almost made up for it.

[heliograph.livejournal.com]

Hasn't that been a repetitive theme in comics? Or at least in the wave of revisionist comics lately? Astro City, Kingdom Come, Powers, etc. have all hit on that.

I'm watching Volume 4 of Batman: The Animated Series. I haven't seen many of these eps before, and I'm struck by the same kind of thing: the enormous property damage caused by the heroes.

But the FF movie was bad because unlike the X-Men or Spider-Man movies it didn't really capture what the FF are about: they should have been fighting giant monsters attacking New York. If they'd been more true to the source material (like X-Men and Spider-Man were) they would have had a better movie.

The FF movie also had a problem with a large number of drafts. What the director did was pick what he liked from each one: the result is a movie that is going in all sorts of directions and frequently makes no sense. But it made money, so maybe the sequel will be better.

If you want to see a good FF movie, rent The Incredibles.

[ouatic-7.livejournal.com]

I just watched Team America, which is unsuitable for people of any age, the other day and one of the (few) good things in it wasthe opening sequence. Team America destroys the Louvre and various other cultural sites in Paris. Notre Dame was about the only survivor. But the world calls them on it. Nobody likes Team America.

[queenortart.livejournal.com]

I was recticent to watch the film because I was SO pissed off when I re-read the comics. I was playing Sue Storm in a freeform, and so went back to the original comics, and got so angry that I ended up throwing the books across the room twice.

Frankly anything they made out of that was an improvement on the sexist 50s crap that was originally written. Sue gets a seriously raw deal, and is made to look like a pretty little thing who is more worried about her clothes, and cooking the dinner than anything else.

Oooh I feel my blood pressure rising just thinking about it.

I ended up watching it on a flight on the way back from India, and thought it was pretty disposable but not dreadful. Glad I didn't play money to see it.

[heliograph.livejournal.com]

It might make you feel better to know that later she went nuts after her second kid was stillborn and started dressing in a lot of skimpy black leather and calling herself "Malice." Afer she got better she switched from "Invisible Girl" to "Invisible Woman."

Come to think of it, that probably won't make you feel better...

[queenortart.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, trying to find a good side in this and failing miserably!

The thing that I found most annoying was that when I was a kid I really looked up to her cos she was a superhero and female and had a child and got married to Reed and all that, and was STILL a superhero and there really weren't any other similar role models. Wonderwoman and Batgirl really didn't hack it for me.

Reading it again and seeing what sexist crap it was I got very annoyed with myself for being quite so impressionable. The only thing in my defence is that I was reading it in the 70s, so I hope it had actually improved from the original very early stuff.

[vitruvian23.livejournal.com]

"For example... the big crash on the bridge. Caused by the Fantastic Four. One guy would have committed suicide if they hadn't been there - instead there was a huge pile-up, property damage probably in the tens of millions, quite possibly several deaths and injuries, and a seriously damaged bridge that would have to be closed for months."

Well, it's all a matter of perception - how is the public to know that the guy was going to jump off the bridge as opposed to jumping into traffic and causing a pretty bad pileup anyway? He didn't look like he was going to be too coherent for a while... and then, by the time news crews got there, they don't see the events that led up to the pileup (admittedly mostly Ben Grimm's fault), but Johnny shielding the one kid, Sue holding the worst of the blast back with a force field, Reed saving the one fireman like a human bungee, and the Thing hauling the fire truck back onto the road. Given the public status of the FDNY since 9/11, especially the last two televised events would tend to tilt the public in their favor more than not.

"Pretty much the same thing happens at the climax - most of the damage is done by the four, not Dr. Doom. It isn't Doom that chooses to puncture a swimming pool, or throw a car at a bus. It isn't Doom that risks setting fire to the atmosphere."

Again, the public isn't privy to how the fight starts (although even then, I believe it's actually Doom that throws himself and Grimm out of the penthouse), but does get to see Doom specifically targeting NYPD patrol cars with his electro- (charged particle?) beams; the FF has already been getting positive media play, so they won't really get criticized for whatever means they use to take down somebody who so clearly marks himself as the bad guy.

But yes, one does get the sense that their hero status is more luck than anything else.

I Kinda Agree

[keith5by5.livejournal.com]

Not only that, which chump caused the accident in the first place?

Richards got the calculations wrong.

And Storm pretty much came across as the school bully type too.

Felt for Ben and Julian McMahon's performance was great too, but other than that, not much to recommend it at all.

[parakkum.livejournal.com]

I just watched FF a few days ago with my mom, and she made a similar comment, though not based on the public giving thanks. She said she didn't really like the Fantastic Four because they never dealt with any problems they hadn't caused themselves -- it felt unheroic to her.

Other than that, I liked the movie well enough. I'm not inspired to see a sequel, but I don't like the Fantastic Four that much anyway (I do read Ultimate FF, tho').

[vampire-scion.livejournal.com]

They destroyed the core principles of the most complex and wonderful villains in comic book history.

Doctor Doom is an arrogant, power hungry, vengeful individual. But he's also driven, noble, and passionate. Instead of a fully fleshed out foreign mytsic mastermind who just screams majesty we get an egocentric metal clad corporate CEO in a hoodie jacket who quips like some second rate clown.

And superhero movies were doing so well with major adversaries... I can only hope they give Lex Luthor his due in the new Superman movie.