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ffuturesI've decided that the version of China I described, torn by rival warlords, is too much of a cliche in recent fiction. Instead I'm going to have Japanese-dominated China (which was already the status quo in the 1930s) lasting into the mid-21st century, then the Chinese taking advantage of one of Japan's wars to stage a Buddhist-led rebellion. And yes, I am thinking a theocracy led by weird Tibetan martial artists etc. etc. As of 2115 China is mostly VERY peaceful, with the exception of a few areas where there are still the last remnants of the old Japanese empire refusing to surrender.
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?
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Date: 2010-06-13 11:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-06-13 11:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-06-13 11:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-06-13 11:37 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-06-13 11:51 pm (UTC)There's overlap, sure. But then the Christians have sects like Quakers, too.
Remember Kim? With monks warring in the hills over which monastery controlled which valley? Not only historically accurate, but more interesting for adventuring than a California-Buddhist version of Tibet/China…
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Date: 2010-06-13 11:58 pm (UTC)China is now a Tibetan-led Buddhist theocracy, but there are still large areas where the old Japanese garrisons aren’t going quietly and sporadic fighting continues. Fortunately nobody is using atomic weapons, although the Japanese may still possess them. Mostly the Chinese are waiting out the aging Japanese forces, and only resort to military action if there is no alternative. Outsiders are asked to avoid giving any aid or support to the Japanese, and there are stringent laws against supplying them with arms etc.
and a bit later
The most notable exception to the general prosperity is, of course, China, where fighting continues and the Japanese hold-outs still continue to loot the countryside. The general lawlessness of the occupied areas make them a haven for every sort of scum and villainy; several gangs of air pirates operate from Chinese territory, and until the discovery of the Red Peri’s lair on Pluto it was believed that the fabled space pirate might also be based there. The League of Nations has repeatedly offered to help China deal with the situation, but the Chinese politely point out that the League originally supported the Japanese occupation of Manchuria, and did little to prevent their eventual conquest of China as a whole. Outside help is not required, but the Chinese government will always be happy to help the League should the need arise.
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Date: 2010-06-14 12:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-06-14 01:37 am (UTC)My first impression is that changing "Tibetan-led" to "Tibetan-trained" will bring this a lot more into line with what I'd expect. It fits the tropes of a lot of Chinese popular fiction: patriotic hero moves to the edge of China and spends life training to free the country.
I'll run it by my Chinese friends and get their take on it — I think they'll be able to spot the source of the cognitive dissonance fairly quickly.
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Date: 2010-06-14 06:52 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-06-14 10:23 pm (UTC)Roughly, for my own knowledge, Tibetan Buddhism is present in China, but even when more widely practiced it was more like common Christianity, with precepts that were often ignored or broken.
In pop culture it is more a source of magic powers than a philosophy. Not killing doesn't mean not beating people up! Warrior monks are a common trope (think Crouching Tiger) as are secret societies (think Flying Daggers), and the two are combined often. Near-foreigners often have useful exotic knowledge, but the hero who liberates China is always Chinese — that is, he identifies himself as Chinese, which is what counts, even if he was born and raised elsewhere.
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Date: 2010-06-15 02:57 pm (UTC)Buddhism in China and Tibet
Date: 2010-06-15 09:54 pm (UTC)Chinese Buddhism is very different from Tibetan Buddhism; it came into China from India the long way round, from the northwest (now Pakistan) into Central Asia and thence to Sinkiang and at length to central China. Direct contact with India was fitful, and broke off altogether around 750. By modern times, Chinese Buddhism had been simplified to focus on just two main strands: Ch'an, or meditative Buddhism, and Pure Land, popular devotional Buddhism.
Tibetan Buddhism had a totally different history. It was piped into Tibet directly over the Himalayas from north India, and retained close contacts down to the final collapse of Indian Buddhism c. 1200. The result was a Buddhism much more strongly influenced by Tantrism, which in popular thought is often perceived as magical (and by hostile witnesses as demonolatry, and so on). Tibetan Buddhists were also much more organized, with sectarian monastic orders maintaining clear lines of authority; for this reason, the orders were able to step in and take over Tibetan government when the secular government collapsed. In China, outside of a couple of large monasteries, there was little organization and such regulation as there was came from the (Confucian) government.
During the Ch'ing dynasty, the Emperors espoused a form of Tibetan Buddhism (which had spread during the Yüan dynasty to the Mongols, and thence to the Manchus) but after the revolution Tibetan-Chinese relations became much more distant. Tibetan and Chinese language, religion, and culture were quite unlike; and even in a situation where much of China was lost to the Japanese, the idea that the Tibetans could provide leadership to the Chinese is pretty far-fetched; the Chinese saw (or rather see) the Tibetans as a bunch of benighted yak-herding barbarians completely out of touch with the modern world.
But in a pulp universe (where 'orientals' are typically muddled together anyway) anything is possible. Perhaps the Thibetan High Lama uses mystical powers to fight off the Japanese, and each Chinese general has a tantric monk beside him to call down hailstorms and lightning upon his enemies. In such a universe, perhaps a lama might rule, either on or behind the throne in Peking; though in light of the geography, such a lama might as well be a Mongol as a Tibetan. Indeed, why not go whole hog and reestablish an Imperial Mongol dynasty on the throne? That gets you not only your Tibetan Buddhism, but also a trained army of Mongol warriors; Tibet's own army was barely more than ceremonial.
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Date: 2010-06-14 12:00 am (UTC)Historically Buddhist sects warred with each other in the Heian period in Japan (around 1000 AD) with companies of warrior monks often allied with assorted warlords.
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Date: 2010-06-14 06:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-06-14 10:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-06-14 09:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-06-14 09:57 am (UTC)Atsuki?
Date: 2010-06-14 07:13 pm (UTC)Re: Atsuki?
Date: 2010-06-14 09:48 pm (UTC)Weinbaum's Earth
Date: 2010-06-14 09:12 pm (UTC)There's a "Pacific War", even involving atomic bombs (but much later than ours) mentioned in Redemption Cairn; given the power relationships, it seems a fair bet that it involved Japan and the United States.
Re: Weinbaum's Earth
Date: 2010-06-14 09:57 pm (UTC)The twentieth century tendency to form “super-states” amalgamating the political or economic interests of several countries continued in the twenty-first. Some of the changes could have probably been predicted, others must have seemed unlikely until they happened:
- The USA formed economic links to the South, with the United Americas eventually becoming a single economic community. The nations within the UA are still self-governing, to about the same extent that states were in the old USA, but all use a common currency, the dollar, which is now also the main currency used off-world, and owe allegiance to Washington. Canada stayed independent and is on reasonably good terms with the United Americas, but a closer ally of Britain. Southern Ireland joined the UA in the 2040s, as a way of staving off British influence.
- Brazil responded to the rise and southward spread of the UA by forming links with other South American nations, united primarily by their distrust of the UA. In recent years the Brazilian Federation has become a little more relaxed in its dealings with the UA, and there have been joint agreements on trade which some interpret as a prelude to a final amalgamation of the Federation and UA.
- Russian Communism fell; to avoid anarchy the rebels restored the Tsar as a symbol of unification. The expanded Russian Empire is now a constitutional monarchy, with the monarch having very little real power.
- The smaller European colonial empires broke up, their colonies becoming independent or joining larger local alliances. Europe is now a loose association of states, the United States of Europe, but constant bickering makes this perhaps the least effective government on Earth. Essentially European nations retain most of their independence, paying lip service to the USE when it suits them to combine economic or military forces. Several European nations have their own colonies in space, such as the Dutch and French zones on Venus. Europe still has nominally Communist and Fascist governments, although a 20th century observer would think of both as mild variants on socialism.
- Britain retained most of its Empire, now the Commonwealth, which still encompasses South Africa and Rhodesia, Iran, India, Burma and Hong Kong, with a scattering of other possessions such as the Falklands and Gibraltar; while independent, Australia, Canada, and New Zealand also owe their allegiance to the British Crown. Despite its small size, Britain still packs an enormous political, economic and military punch.
- With the decline of the European empires most of Africa was united by a new Mahdi, and is now an Islamic caliphate. There has been a general liberalization of Islam over the last century; women are allowed to appear unveiled, although they are denied the vote. There are border tensions between the Caliphate and Commonwealth.
- The Pacific Alliance originally formed to resist the Japanese Empire’s expansion into the Philippines. This led to the 2075 Pacific War, a Buddhist revolt in Tibet and China, and the surrender of Japan. The current capital is Manila.
- Finally, China is now ruled by a loose alliance of Buddhist sects, but there are still large areas where the old Japanese garrisons aren’t going quietly and sporadic fighting continues. Fortunately nobody is using atomic weapons, although the Japanese may still possess them. Mostly the Chinese are waiting out the aging Japanese forces, and only resort to military action if there is no alternative. Outsiders are asked to avoid giving any aid or support to the Japanese, and there are stringent laws against supplying them with arms etc.
Needless to say there are a good few non-aligned nations, as well as nations with ties to more than one political bloc. For example, Canada has trade and defence ties with the United Americas and France as well as the Commonwealth; Australia has naval treaties with the Pacific Alliance.Re: Weinbaum's Earth
Date: 2010-06-14 10:08 pm (UTC)Stringent laws against arms trafficking and drug smuggling didn't help the Qing. Is the world less predatory, or are the Chinese better at defending themselves?
Re: Weinbaum's Earth
Date: 2010-06-15 06:47 am (UTC)